So true on many levels. I regret that my success, different time, has influenced my children to be hyper independent which may not play out so well in their time. Also I look at how some writers have used help. Thinking of Tolstoy, whose wife rewrote his scribbles every night as he worked on War and Peace. I would love more interaction in my own novel writing, but my wife is sooo bored by my spending so much time and energy in the Rome of Vespasian. I am struck by how so many authors end their introductions, after they have thanked their editors etc with thanks for a long suffering spouse. Talking about editors, maybe they too are the essential collaborators?
Partners, particularly wives and girlfriends, are the unsung heroes of the writing world, imho. So many great novels probably wouldn't have been written if the husband had had to pull his weight around the house.
Very true about books being a team effort - just worked on the final proofs of my next one and even after I and two other editors have proofed it several times the indexer has found at least one mildly embarrassing mistake, half a dozen typos, and a dozen other small bits and bobs, all of which will improve the final thing immensely.
It is an interesting idea, isn't it? I think the big challenge would be finding a group of writers who gel, and figuring out how the finances would work if it's a genuinely collaborative novel as opposed to a brainstorming session that one person then goes and writes up.
I would think that like all collaborations it would require clear communication from the get go. In the academic setting the lab is a key feature, and the model is brainstorming and then one person goes and does the bulk of the work. That person would be first author, usually (in decent academic environments, there are some horror stories obviously), and the supervisor would typically be second, followed by other members in an order that reflects their contributions. But for a novel I can totally see an "all the way" collaborative process - there are several examples such as Good Omens and Four Brown Girls Who Write. It's a bit like a band in that sense because a creative process is much less clearly defined that a research process. I'm not sure you could at the end of it say person x contributed less than person y.
I couldn't agree more - clear communications are key, particularly around how much input is expected or needed. Do you just want a group to brainstorm an idea to get a story's structure nailed down? Or actual co-authors? Because those are very different types of collaboration with very different levels of commitment.
But one of the things I struggle with, as a hyper-independent person, is beginning the process of bringing someone in to my creative world. Well, anyone other than my husband!
It's not so much about whether I would trust them not to steal my ideas, but more about whether I would trust them creatively. It's very easy for people to try to rework a story into the thing they would have written themselves, rather than try to see what you're aiming for and come up with suggestions for how you can make it better match the idea in your head. This is something I've come across with story editors, for eg, and it's something I try not to do with I'm giving other people feedback. So yeah, I have some thinking to do around that.
Completely agree, there's also always a period of 'incubation' (I don't like that word though), when the idea isn't really an idea yet but just like fleeting random thoughts that don't yet coalesce into a "single idea" and that stage I find is really hard to explain to others. I've been sharing my ideas and concepts earlier and earlier with my writing group and it's been tricky, but really helpful I think. My partner always says that he thinks by talking to other people (that's probably why ChatGPT has such potential as a tool, BTW) because he refines his idea from hearing what others "latch onto" when he tells them. I just think it would be so nice to have people to work with rather than sitting at my desk in front of a screen all day... :)
I always get really embarrassed when I try to explain what my books are about, particularly if the idea isn't yet well formed. But it's really interesting to hear about how your partner develops his ideas through listening out for what people respond well to. Something to learn from that, definitely!
I know! I'm like, it's about a family but not really and it's a utopia but dark. To be fair, I have more success with writers than non-writers, who would at this point step slowly back... :)
So true on many levels. I regret that my success, different time, has influenced my children to be hyper independent which may not play out so well in their time. Also I look at how some writers have used help. Thinking of Tolstoy, whose wife rewrote his scribbles every night as he worked on War and Peace. I would love more interaction in my own novel writing, but my wife is sooo bored by my spending so much time and energy in the Rome of Vespasian. I am struck by how so many authors end their introductions, after they have thanked their editors etc with thanks for a long suffering spouse. Talking about editors, maybe they too are the essential collaborators?
Partners, particularly wives and girlfriends, are the unsung heroes of the writing world, imho. So many great novels probably wouldn't have been written if the husband had had to pull his weight around the house.
And yes, editors are definitely essential!
Very true about books being a team effort - just worked on the final proofs of my next one and even after I and two other editors have proofed it several times the indexer has found at least one mildly embarrassing mistake, half a dozen typos, and a dozen other small bits and bobs, all of which will improve the final thing immensely.
It's amazing what can slip through, isn't it?
I love the idea of writers' room for novels. Count me in! :)
It is an interesting idea, isn't it? I think the big challenge would be finding a group of writers who gel, and figuring out how the finances would work if it's a genuinely collaborative novel as opposed to a brainstorming session that one person then goes and writes up.
I would think that like all collaborations it would require clear communication from the get go. In the academic setting the lab is a key feature, and the model is brainstorming and then one person goes and does the bulk of the work. That person would be first author, usually (in decent academic environments, there are some horror stories obviously), and the supervisor would typically be second, followed by other members in an order that reflects their contributions. But for a novel I can totally see an "all the way" collaborative process - there are several examples such as Good Omens and Four Brown Girls Who Write. It's a bit like a band in that sense because a creative process is much less clearly defined that a research process. I'm not sure you could at the end of it say person x contributed less than person y.
I couldn't agree more - clear communications are key, particularly around how much input is expected or needed. Do you just want a group to brainstorm an idea to get a story's structure nailed down? Or actual co-authors? Because those are very different types of collaboration with very different levels of commitment.
But one of the things I struggle with, as a hyper-independent person, is beginning the process of bringing someone in to my creative world. Well, anyone other than my husband!
It's not so much about whether I would trust them not to steal my ideas, but more about whether I would trust them creatively. It's very easy for people to try to rework a story into the thing they would have written themselves, rather than try to see what you're aiming for and come up with suggestions for how you can make it better match the idea in your head. This is something I've come across with story editors, for eg, and it's something I try not to do with I'm giving other people feedback. So yeah, I have some thinking to do around that.
Completely agree, there's also always a period of 'incubation' (I don't like that word though), when the idea isn't really an idea yet but just like fleeting random thoughts that don't yet coalesce into a "single idea" and that stage I find is really hard to explain to others. I've been sharing my ideas and concepts earlier and earlier with my writing group and it's been tricky, but really helpful I think. My partner always says that he thinks by talking to other people (that's probably why ChatGPT has such potential as a tool, BTW) because he refines his idea from hearing what others "latch onto" when he tells them. I just think it would be so nice to have people to work with rather than sitting at my desk in front of a screen all day... :)
I always get really embarrassed when I try to explain what my books are about, particularly if the idea isn't yet well formed. But it's really interesting to hear about how your partner develops his ideas through listening out for what people respond well to. Something to learn from that, definitely!
I know! I'm like, it's about a family but not really and it's a utopia but dark. To be fair, I have more success with writers than non-writers, who would at this point step slowly back... :)